I respect everything Brian said and alky isnt for some people but IMO alky is easy and when run no milky/hard heat up issues. My biggest thing here is, going from day to night you see gas carbs have a 3-4 # change, then see alky guys maybe move 1. As a bracket racer alky is a great thing, more consistent (most the time), no problem getting it cool when need be (gas sucks in the late late rounds).

I do agree on the not seeing the flame, and being toxic and ya have to be pretty safe there.

I run alky and hose it as much as the next guy and dont have issues. Again its all what ya think is right, 90% of the time its easy ET gain with being more consistent.

I run a 15 to 1 race engine which is a whole lot more trouble than a stock engine would be. Alcohol does take more maintance. But it can pick you up as much as 3 tenths and is more consistant et wise at the track. But if I run everything because is was easier I'd be racing my tow vechile. But thats what makes racing so fun. Everyone has something different, no two cars are the same.

I had commented to run gas earlier because nitrous is way more fun. You have much more room to add hp or take it away. This is good when track conditions get worse also but you really have to know how your car will run to dial it in.
My altered has alcohol and is very very consistent but in the evening when the sun goes down and the track cools off,it spins the tires because of the lighter weight so I launch it softer.
If you haven't run alcohol before you should try it,if you don't like it,switch back.

Alright then i will try the toilet first but i will need some help getting started as i am not up on alcohol at all... i am a mechanic by trade and build all my own motors so once i get the principals of tuning it i should be ok.... so give me all the info you guys have. pump size and parts i should have. i do have the 4.1 toilet and barrel valve and lines.... where should i start for nozzels and jet size... motor combo is at top of thread...

tks
joe

www.killerrons.com very good info on this site for first time injection users.

pump should be a 0 1/2, actually would get it from James Monroe who has that site I listed above.

Alcohol, toxicity, yes, more mainteniance, yes, but it's not nearly as bad running injection on alcohol as with a carberator. Most people i know who run injection don't worry about flushing the system unless the car is going to sit for a month or so, me included. With a carberator you do have to clean it out after every weekend of racing because there are more things to corrode and more passages that can plug up.
I also run turnouts because my headers are unside the frame headers, and the fumes are really bad if i don't have them on.
I can recall starting my car up in my inclosed trailer to let a friend hear it, i didn't drop down the rear door, i almost sufficated, and could barely get out of the car from the fumes (i'll not do that again for sure) But alcohol forever, not rubbing or drinking.

With that said, i don't even know how to spell Gggaaas, o'h wait i got it GAS.

JMO

Zip.

Question for Zip and Hammertime...or anyone else that knows.

I have several friends that run Ron's terminator set up and they love it and have no issues that are too crazy...My question is toilet vs terminator...pros and cons of each. sorry to highjack.

both can be made to work, I've owned both and feel on the right size motor a terminator is much easier to tune then the toilet. Its less sensative. All alky setups usually come back to the people setting them up. I've got NOT 1 thing bad to say about a APD alky carb, I've owned several and won tons of money with them.

I think the biggest problem for most is this, either the owner, or the owners friends/buddies think they can make a good setup injection/carb from a top name builder better and they start messing with it, then cant get it back when they get it way out of wack, so they give up and call Alky junk and go back to gas. I cant count how many alky setups I've fiddled with after people screwed them up and got them right back to good, only to watch them fiddle again. sorry for the long post .. but people make alky harder then it is .. carb, injection, all easy with some know how.

My friends almost never fool with theirs...I know the weather changes things but I never see them touch it. One is a tube chassis door car with an all aluminum 415(I think 415...it may be a 421) the other is a Slip tube Spitzer dragster with a 400 ci sm blk....both cars are very consistant.

Todd,

I don't know the difference between a toilet and a terminator, i've never personally run a terminator, but do have a toilet on my 377" and i've messed with a lot of stacks injection units. To me they are easier than a carb to tune, i never mess with the barrel valve after i have it set to what the car likes, either on a stacks or toilet. As you know we can get some 100 degree temperatures here in the south so just changing the pill up or down from the sweet spot is all i ever do. My friends 396" sm/blk runs low 5.60's with a 4.1 toilet @ 2650 lbs. and it's 23 degree head motor. Given my rathers i would run injection over a carb. on alcohol, due the ease of tuning. some people complain about cold starting, i spin the motor over until the oil pressure comes up and if the pump is not mounted higher centerline of the fuel cell, usually the fuel pressue is up by then and it will start easly, if not, give it a shot of gas and the rest of the day it will start just fine without priming.

JMO

Zip.