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Crate motor favorites??
Anyone really happy with a turnkey crate motor package? I need a reliable SBC engine for my 66 Nova. It will have a 350 Turbo and a 9" with 4:10 gears and mini spool. This will be a street/strip car and I would prefer a pump gas motor. Who has had good luck or bad with a company selling chevy crate engines??
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Summit has some base 350 Goodwrench engines that would be screamers with a cam change.
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I got a GMPP Fastburn 385 in my 66 impala.It is rated at 385 hp and I believe it.I weighed my car personally and it wieghs 4200 lbs without me in it.My car is originally a powerglide car and therefore has a 2.73 rear gear.The motor has plenty of power to move such a heavy car with airplane gears.They call for a 750 cfm vac sec carb,but I think my 650 mech sec does much better.I run on 89 octane fuel,can burn my 255/60r15s in second gear EASY at a 20 mph rolling start AND I get 20,YES 21 mpg on the highway with the a/c off.16 mpg in town with a/c on.I have put over 45,000 miles on it in the last 3 years with no problems whatsoever.It will run a high 8 (8.6-8.80s) second pass in the 1/8 mile,leaving like a sissy to protect my original(read:worn out)rear gears with 275,000 miles in them.Has a nice idle that sound kinda lumpy without be too much to ignore.Sounds good but not enough to irritate you if you drive it in town everyday.Bought mine straight from the dealer,but I think Pace Performance has the best deal on these particular motors.I would LOVE to see what it would feel like in a setup like yours :D HIGHLY RECOMMENDED .Especially for an everyday rider like mine.Good luck and let us know what you get!!
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Man, just have an engine built. Crate motors suck. seriously. Most of them, are slapped together, cheap barely adequate core engines. I used to HATE crate engines, and get really mad when someone would bring them up, or use that term. And, when womeone would come in, looking for an engine, then buy a crate engine instead of having me build them a precision, custom engine, it would bum me out, and make me mad. Funny thing is, I usualy see them the next year, to re-build it, port the heads, etc etc. They spend more than twice as much as they would have, if they would have had me build the engine from scratch, plus, it would have been better, because I am usualy stuck with using what ever heads were on it, and some of the parts. Now, the way I see it, I re-build, and tweak on at least 10 a year, because they are so lame. Plus, they are re-energizing the core supply.
Frank Advanced Performance www.get-ap.com |
NOW FRANK--DON'T HOLD BACK ON HOW YOU FEEL 8) 8) 8) 8) ---MAYBE YOU JUST DON'T LIKE CRATE MOTORS!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ---LIVELY
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That's true,too.I always thought guys who had crate engines were sell-outs.But then my mom bought a Stingray with a Fastburn in it,that is an awesome EVERYDAY motor.I ain't much for a racecar.As far as crates go,I am 100 percent pleased with mine,doubt I would buy one from anywhere but GMPP.Seriously doubt I'll find another reduced to price where it compares to buiding one.I'd rather spend my money with the guy down the road,than mail a check to a mail order company.But if you want a crate,there's my $0.2
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i,m with olds48 on this one. with the GMPP you get NEW parts plus a warranty. if you need replacement parts. lot less hassle as it is not custom made for a specific purpose. these engines are usually matched and trouble free right out of the crate(providing you know how to tune it). granted, these are mainly street/strip engines w/ the exception of the 572R. and yes, like all engines, there's always room for improvement, whether it is 275hp or 1000 hp. someone always wants more more more! :twisted:
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You guys would shriek if you knew how many of those GMPP engines have problems, then see how good that warrenty is. Thats a joke. You think they just say, oh, you broke it, ok, here is a new one. NOT. The parts in those engines are barely adequate for what your doing. I can build a mild 350 street engine, competively priced to a gm engine, that uses all new parts, that are much better, and make more power. Like I saod, the crate/core engines are re-energizing the core chain. The absolute LAMEST crate engine is a toss up, between the zz502, or the 572. Talk about a joke. But, I suppose, if I spent the kind of money Gm did marketing my stuff, I woulodn;t be whining about these engines. I had 1 guy, with a budget $4500 496, absolutely was a 572. Talk about one mad guy.
Frank Advanced Performance www.get-ap.com |
Most good Custom Engine Builders will not like Crate Motors. I for sure don't. To me they are a waste of money, particuarily those sold by GM. lol. For the same money I or most any good builder can get you a whole lot more power. I look at their power levels they are selling as if reading a comic book. Sorry, that is how I feel. Then of couse nothing I build is just exactly like any other thing I have built either. Each one is special designed and built to fit a particular customer's desires and needs.
Performance aftermarket Crate Motors are in my opinion even worse. Has anyone ever given any thought to just how much time they must have used doing the assembly or checking for clearances or for that matter checking anything, for the prices to be so low? Don't fool yourself thinking they can do it becuase they get such huge parts discounts. I am sure they can get some bread and butter parts for less than we who do not buy pallet loads of the same parts. No doubt they do. That just means they make more profit per sale than we who sell the same parts for the same prices. Wonder why or better yet, HOW thier labor or technicical work is so cheap though. ;) Ed |
Thank you Ed. I felt like I was getting beat up a bit over that. But your exactly right. One company, the cheapest racing engines on the planet, who, advertise on this sight quite a bit, are like you describe. You know who I mean.
They are NO way doing them right. I have seen inside their engines. They do a generic diamond hone to size, run a brush thru it, call it race prepped block, generic balanced rotating assembly, and, slammed together. Thats NOT how you build a race engine guys. Another thing that is done, is what I call bait and switch. Places like Shafifroff, etc, advertise a cheap price, then, have a mile long list of options. Guess what, you are HAMERRED on, by the salesman, to purchase those options. They then inform you that this price doesn;t include this or that, and, that it will be this much. The cheap price is used to get you to call. You can;t sell anyone anything, if they don;t call. So, that $8995 540, ends up costing $13000. Frank |
NOT CHOOSING SIDES HERE--BUT---DO ANY OF YOU GUYS OFFER WARRANTIES ON YOUR RACE ENGINES? :? :? :? ---NO BUILDER IN MY AREA DOES!!!---I HAVE SEEN THE WARRANTY WORK PRETTY WELL ON GM CRATE MOTORS/ AND I HAVE SEEN THEM FIGHT PEOPLE ALSO :oops: :oops: ---I BUILD NICE HOMES AND HAVE TO BACK THEM UP IN MY STATE IF THEY GO BAD OR THINGS START FALLING APART :shock: :shock: :shock: JUST MY 2 CENTS HERE-------LIVELY
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Lively,
I don't and I can't. I do work with customer if they have any problems to at least help them by taking huge labor hit when their problem was not my doings. I have done that more than once. Frankly, I am not in a position to really be much concerned about a warranty becuase to this day after 37 years can say I have never seen or heard of one of my race or street engines actually blowing, except for my own and I was beyond pushing the envelope, even then the damages were not that bad. so a warranty is not really considered by any customer I have had. Besides that it is just recently that anyone has started to giving warranties and you can bet your bottom dollar the prices went up for them to do it. In a street driving application, I will give a 120 day warranty on parts and labor. With me the 120 days is not set in concrete. I am pretty sure that Bill Henden here does offer a warranty with his engines. I know that Bill of Awsome Engines does. I think that Steve Schmidt has started to offer a warranty on their street engines. The only way that anyone can possibly offer a warranty is if they are making a good profit. With my low margins I just can't. I probably could if I was getting $35,000 that they get for my same basic engine I get $25,000 for. That is just an example becuase we know that particular package from several of the top builders and what it goes for. Ed |
OK, Ballpark a figure. What would you guys charge for a 454 like this? Not asking for a quote just comparing.
HP: 415 TORQUE: 497 Engine Type: Chevy Big Block V8 Displacement (cu.in): 454 Block: 2 Bolt Early Style Bore / Stoke: 4.280 X 4.000 Crankshaft: OE 2 Piece Seal Rods: OE Pistons: Hypereutectic Rings: Moly Camshaft Type: HYD. Flat Tappet Camshaft Lift: .539 IN X .539 EX Camshaft Duration @.50: 228 IN X 238 EX Cylinder Head Type: OE Cast Chamber Size: 118 cc Valve Size: 2.079 IN X 1.720 EX Intake Runner Volume: OE Compression Ratio: 8.5:1 Rocker Arm Type: Stamped Steel Rocker Arm Ratio: 1.7:1 Sheet Metal: Chrome V/C T/C Black O/P Recommended Fuel: 92 Octane Ignition Timing: 36 Degrees Total Advance Max RPM: 5800 Warranty: 24/Unlimited Dyno Proven: YES And add Weiand Dual Plane Intake Manifold Holley double pumper 8mm Spark Plug Wires Spark Plugs MSD HEI Distributor Super damper SFI Flex Plate |
Oh, sorry, no core on the above enigne.
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ED----ATLEAST YOUR HAVE A GOOD HISTORY BEHIND YOUR WORKMANSHIP AND TRY YOUR BEST TO TAKE CARE OF PROBLEMS---TOOO MANY SO CALLED BIULDERS DON'T BACK UP ANYTHING AT ALL EVEN IF IT THERE FAULT!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: I WOULD TRUST YOU BIULDING ME AN ENGINE---- AS SOON AS MY SHIP COMES IN WITH THE EXTRA FUNDS[ I HOPE THAT IS SOON]---LOL---YOUR FRIEND --LIVELY
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You know the whole warranty thing bugs me.I am self employed in the HVAC business.If I go to your house and put in a brand new 93% effecient gas furnace and charge you $1100,I "clear"about $300.After business expenses (truck payment,misc supplies,insurance....)I usually clear about $100-$150 a day.BUT WE GIVE A 5 YEAR WARRANTY ON WORKMANSHIP.Our supplier gives a 5 yr,10 yr or even lifetime equipment warranty,depending on which model you buy.Now,here it is 2 a.m.,20 degrees below zero and you call me because your heat is off.You know what happens?I get out of bed and fix it! But when I spend $10,000 on my motor and it craps out on me in the quarter finals,costing me a gauranteed win,ANY engine builder will just shrug their shoulders and walk away with a fist full of your money. :evil:
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once again, i have to agree w/ olds48. being in the mechanic trade for @ 30 years and owned my own shop for 6 of those, every customer expected a warrenty on parts AND labor. if i messed up on what i did, no money came in on that job. so you have to raise your labor rate to account for the occasional comeback weather it is your fault or not if you want to keep the customer. in this area, if you loose one customer due to that, the word gets around that you don't do good work or honor your labor and you loose that customer and possible more not a lot of customers in this area anyway, so every one is important. jmo
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I have a 66 Chevy II with a South State Speed Blown 355. They specialize in SBC and I couldn't be happier. They are worth checking out.
Good prices and excellent service. Steve |
Olds48, if you think your getting the same kind of warrenty that you provide, your sadly mistaken. Like I said, it basicaly boils down, to there really isn;t one.
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My deal is like Ed. I don;t say or put in writing a warrenty. However, I have spent many a night at a customers house, helping with issues, or minor problems etc. Knock on wood, I have had very minimal problems over the years. A few flattened cam loabs, abd some thrust bearing issues, but an engine thats actualy come apart, no. Is it my fault that a thrust bearing gets chewed, and causes issues, because the guy used the wrong bolts for the flywheel, jamming them into the back of the block, taking all the thrust out, or using a balloned converter, and killing the thrust. Or, makes a mistake adjusting his lash, after 100 passes, and many street miles, and bends a valve. Or his high side MSD chip in his 2 step is dead, and it tags 9500 in the water box, floats the valves, and bends some valves, after 2 seasons and 300 passes?
Like I said, the warrenty, is VERY conditional, and like I said, if you think they will just hand you a freshy, yah right. Most of the warrenty's, by like Shmmidt, or Awesome engines, or some of these others like from Mitchel, are also VERY conditional, and there is a LONG list of conditions. Us engine guys, can pretty well tell what happened to an engine, if there is an issue. All these warrenty's, are thru an independant insurance company, and, have a very limited value. Usualy $3000-$5000. So, these shops, get the engine back, if the warrenty company approves it, they can usualy fix it for that amount. But yah, I have ate a lot of money over the years, helping guys out, because for that "word of mouth" thing. If you don;t you get bashed. Even if it wasn;t anything you did. Frank Advanced Performance www.get-ap.com |
doug herbert crate engines are the best bang for your buck!!! they are reliable and great performers
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Pmax.Covering someones else's mistake sucks.I'm like you.I can tell if it was my fault or not.And will cover it accordingly.Sometimes you have to eat it anyway.Word of mouth is both good and bad.I have no doubt that you do superior work and also stand by your work.If not you wouldn't stay in busuness long.I can also imagine that, being an engine buider,crate motors,or assembly line motors,would rub you raw.After all the dedication you give to each and every motor,versus something a bunch of guys "slap together".I have no dillusions that GMPP will warranty my motor.I have bought a couple new vehicles,and am convinced that most of the time,you are money ahead to fix it out of pocket,than to fool with them.But that is not to say that ALL crate engines are junk.If GM's engines were that bad they couldn't warranty their new vehicles for 36,000,50,000 or 100,000 miles at a time.I am 100% happy with my Fastburn.But I don't think I'll go racing with an Advance Auto Parts Recon 496 anytime soon,either
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