18 Degree 434 Chev - That Doesn't Make Power - Help
#11
if your little over 12 to 1 compression...no surprise to me your HP is close at 600hp and some change,,( whats the TQ ?)...Also your et's are in the ball park for a 600 hp motor and a car that is close to 3200 lb..is this with or without driver.?
also i had a 89 ladder bar camaro 4 plus yrs ago..weighed 3200lb with me in the car...had a 406ci that made 607hp...with a glide and a 4.56 gear..i ran consistant mid 6.30's in the 1/8 at 110mph and a best 1/4 mile of 9.92 at 137 mph...60 fts stayed in the low 1.40 range..
My buddy runs a 18 degree 434ci with approx 15 to 1 compression and it made 740 ish HP on the dyno..( he runs VP Import fuel 120 octane)
also i had a 89 ladder bar camaro 4 plus yrs ago..weighed 3200lb with me in the car...had a 406ci that made 607hp...with a glide and a 4.56 gear..i ran consistant mid 6.30's in the 1/8 at 110mph and a best 1/4 mile of 9.92 at 137 mph...60 fts stayed in the low 1.40 range..
My buddy runs a 18 degree 434ci with approx 15 to 1 compression and it made 740 ish HP on the dyno..( he runs VP Import fuel 120 octane)
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#12
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 13
Re: motor
You are right onebadgmc, comp ratio is approx. 12.3-1 and the valve lift stated is at the cam. Lift at the valve is .695 on the intake and .635 on the exhaust. Cam was installed as per cam card.
I am running 4.11-1 diff ratio, I leave the line at 5800rpm on the transbrake, powerglide, tyre size is 28 x 10.5 x 15. Pushrod size is 7/16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMVL2mBvsik
I am running 4.11-1 diff ratio, I leave the line at 5800rpm on the transbrake, powerglide, tyre size is 28 x 10.5 x 15. Pushrod size is 7/16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMVL2mBvsik
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Belleville, IL
Posts: 658
Re: motor
Originally Posted by torana434
You are right onebadgmc, comp ratio is approx. 12.3-1 and the valve lift stated is at the cam. Lift at the valve is .695 on the intake and .635 on the exhaust. Cam was installed as per cam card.
I am running 4.11-1 diff ratio, I leave the line at 5800rpm on the transbrake, powerglide, tyre size is 28 x 10.5 x 15. Pushrod size is 7/16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMVL2mBvsik
I am running 4.11-1 diff ratio, I leave the line at 5800rpm on the transbrake, powerglide, tyre size is 28 x 10.5 x 15. Pushrod size is 7/16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMVL2mBvsik
I think a 4.30 gear would help substantially too.
#14
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DYNO TECH
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Leonard, Texas
Posts: 414
These are the specs listed for the part # you listed.
Chev SB
Duration @ .050": 278/286
Adv. Duration: 316/326
Lift: .570/.570 @ cam
Lobe Center: 110
4400-8200, Works great in big cubic inch small blocks, OK with NOS
If your not planning on running N20 then I would drop to a cam with 106 LC. and up the CR on the engine to about 14:1
Chev SB
Duration @ .050": 278/286
Adv. Duration: 316/326
Lift: .570/.570 @ cam
Lobe Center: 110
4400-8200, Works great in big cubic inch small blocks, OK with NOS
If your not planning on running N20 then I would drop to a cam with 106 LC. and up the CR on the engine to about 14:1
#15
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: VA Hospital, Dallas, Tx (214 302 1924) cell-972-464-7400
Posts: 540
All good advice I see here.
In my opinion the headers are also too small for the engine and the heads. That intake is a pig if someone that knows what they are doing does not do some radiusing in the plenum area, and it should also want an open spacer on it too.
In addition to the cam/compression mismatch I'll bet you are not turning enough rpm for the bigger heads to start coming alive.
If this were a nitrous engine the compression would be fine but the cam wouldn't.
You can try this;
Try opening up your valve lash to the point that is maximum. I am guessing that will be appx .028 and see if it tries to wake up any at all. By the increasing of your valve lash you are effectively killing a little of the cams effective duration. If you get an improvement it is very good evidence the cam is too big in duration for the compression you have. The same applies the other way too. By going smaller on valve lash you can mke the cam think it is bigger than it is just for research.
In my opinion the headers are also too small for the engine and the heads. That intake is a pig if someone that knows what they are doing does not do some radiusing in the plenum area, and it should also want an open spacer on it too.
In addition to the cam/compression mismatch I'll bet you are not turning enough rpm for the bigger heads to start coming alive.
If this were a nitrous engine the compression would be fine but the cam wouldn't.
You can try this;
Try opening up your valve lash to the point that is maximum. I am guessing that will be appx .028 and see if it tries to wake up any at all. By the increasing of your valve lash you are effectively killing a little of the cams effective duration. If you get an improvement it is very good evidence the cam is too big in duration for the compression you have. The same applies the other way too. By going smaller on valve lash you can mke the cam think it is bigger than it is just for research.
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1
Several things I see here, some have been mentioned already.
Compression ratio is too low, why are the chambers 68cc? Many 23º heads have smaller chambers. 18º should be around 50cc or less.
Cam is not what I'd choose, but probably not killing 150hp either. More exhaust duration and wider LSA, but get the compression up. Lift is too short, mainly from low ratio on rockers. 1.7 or more on intake and 1.65 on ex would have been better.
Who ported the heads and where did the flow numbers come from? Heads have the biggest potential for killing 150hp. Improper porting or someone giving incorrect flow #'s can make for a really weak engine. Are these the raised runner 18º heads?? The bottom of the intake port is about 1.25" above the deck.
Dart intake, ... not sure if this is the same one I looked at a few years back, but that thing had runners so small it didn't even have enough metal to make it the size I wanted and I was running a 360ci 18º. I sent it back and got an Edelbrock, then spent a ton of time opening it up to a reasonable CSA. If the heads flow good but you put a small intake on it, it wont make any power. To make 750+HP, you will need 3.5sq.in CSA or more.
6AL ignition on an engine that should make well over 700hp??? Get a better ignition for it, especially if you find the problem and it starts making the power it should.
I built (8-9 yrs ago) a 360ci 18º engine that dynoed 750+ @ 8000. Heads were Dart that I ported myself. They flowed pretty close to yours 358@ .750" and [email protected]". With 75 more cubic inches, that should make more power and do it a lot lower rpm.
Rick
Compression ratio is too low, why are the chambers 68cc? Many 23º heads have smaller chambers. 18º should be around 50cc or less.
Cam is not what I'd choose, but probably not killing 150hp either. More exhaust duration and wider LSA, but get the compression up. Lift is too short, mainly from low ratio on rockers. 1.7 or more on intake and 1.65 on ex would have been better.
Who ported the heads and where did the flow numbers come from? Heads have the biggest potential for killing 150hp. Improper porting or someone giving incorrect flow #'s can make for a really weak engine. Are these the raised runner 18º heads?? The bottom of the intake port is about 1.25" above the deck.
Dart intake, ... not sure if this is the same one I looked at a few years back, but that thing had runners so small it didn't even have enough metal to make it the size I wanted and I was running a 360ci 18º. I sent it back and got an Edelbrock, then spent a ton of time opening it up to a reasonable CSA. If the heads flow good but you put a small intake on it, it wont make any power. To make 750+HP, you will need 3.5sq.in CSA or more.
6AL ignition on an engine that should make well over 700hp??? Get a better ignition for it, especially if you find the problem and it starts making the power it should.
I built (8-9 yrs ago) a 360ci 18º engine that dynoed 750+ @ 8000. Heads were Dart that I ported myself. They flowed pretty close to yours 358@ .750" and [email protected]". With 75 more cubic inches, that should make more power and do it a lot lower rpm.
Rick
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 101
I agree with Rick, .. those numbers are weak for a Dart 18* head,
with a 2,18" valve should flow around 370-380, .. also
270cc might be on the small side if you look at the proper
cross sectional areas for a 2.18" valve and your size engine.
Curtis
with a 2,18" valve should flow around 370-380, .. also
270cc might be on the small side if you look at the proper
cross sectional areas for a 2.18" valve and your size engine.
Curtis
#18
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3
compression
the compression is way to low and the cam is to small your taking the 434 out of its working band and a 434 is a high rpm motor were you shifting at and how much torque did the motor have sometimes on a sbc the hp is lower than the torque number we ran best time 6.22 in a 2800lb car 1/8 mile with afr227's and the engine comp is around 15:1 we have 325 in the cylinders do a comp check most likely your down on comp why guys build a 12:1 race motor thats a trailer queen 14:1 or better
#19
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Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by cboggs
I agree with Rick, .. those numbers are weak for a Dart 18* head,
with a 2,18" valve should flow around 370-380, .. also
270cc might be on the small side if you look at the proper
cross sectional areas for a 2.18" valve and your size engine.
Curtis
with a 2,18" valve should flow around 370-380, .. also
270cc might be on the small side if you look at the proper
cross sectional areas for a 2.18" valve and your size engine.
Curtis
small a valve for the application, ..
C
#20
Senior Member
MASTER BUILDER
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: alberta,canada
Posts: 166
i ran the numbers on et and horse power chart for a 3140 pound car running 10.03 and it told me you way over 600 hp.......my car last year was running 10.29 and weight is 2380 with 550 hp.....so me being 760 pounds lighter equates to 76 hp more u need to run the same time as me